MN80: Vekhanasasutta - With Vekhanasa
- © Translated from the Pali by Bhante Sujato. (More copyright information)
1So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.
Then the wanderer Vekhanasa went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he stood to one side, and was inspired to exclaim:
“This is the ultimate splendor, this is the ultimate splendor.”
2“But Kaccāna, why do you say: ‘This is the ultimate splendor, this is the ultimate splendor.’ What is that ultimate splendor?”
3“Master Gotama, the ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.”
4“But what is that ultimate splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer?”
5“Master Gotama, the ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.”
6“Kaccāna, you could draw this out for a long time. You say, ‘The ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But you don’t describe that splendor.
Suppose a man was to say, ‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her I desire!’
They’d say to him, ‘Mister, that finest lady in the land who you desire — do you know whether she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a merchant, or a worker?’
Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’
They’d say to him, ‘Mister, that finest lady in the land who you desire — do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or tawny? What village, town, or city she comes from?’
Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’
They’d say to him, ‘Mister, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’
Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’
7What do you think, Kaccāna? This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”
“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”
“In the same way, you say, ‘The ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But you don’t describe that splendor.”
“Master Gotama, suppose there was a beryl gem that was naturally beautiful, eight-faceted, well-worked. When placed on a cream rug it would shine and glow and radiate. Such is the splendor of the self that is sound after death.”
8“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: such a beryl gem, or a firefly in the dark of night?”
“A firefly in the dark of night.”
9“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: a firefly in the dark of night, or an oil lamp in the dark of night?”
“An oil lamp in the dark of night.”
10“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: an oil lamp in the dark of night, or a bonfire in the dark of night?”
“A bonfire in the dark of night.”
11“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: a bonfire in the dark of night, or the Morning Star in a clear and cloudless sky at the crack of dawn?”
“The Morning Star in a clear and cloudless sky at the crack of dawn.”
12“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the Morning Star in a clear and cloudless sky at the crack of dawn, or the full moon at midnight in a clear and cloudless sky on the fifteenth day sabbath?”
“The full moon at midnight in a clear and cloudless sky on the fifteenth day sabbath.”
13“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the full moon at midnight in a clear and cloudless sky on the fifteenth day sabbath, or the sun at midday in a clear and cloudless sky in the last month of the rainy season?”
“The sun at midday in a clear and cloudless sky in the last month of the rainy season.”
14“Beyond this, Kaccāna, I know very many gods on whom the light of the sun and moon make no impression. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But of the splendor inferior to a firefly you say, ‘This is the ultimate splendor.’ And you don’t describe that splendor.
15Kaccāna, there are these five kinds of sensual stimulation. What five? Sights known by the eye that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. Sounds known by the ear … Smells known by the nose … Tastes known by the tongue … Touches known by the body that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These are the five kinds of sensual stimulation.
The pleasure and happiness that arises from these five kinds of sensual stimulation is called sensual pleasure. So there is the saying: ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. From sensual pleasure comes the best kind of sensual pleasure, which is said to be the best thing there.’”
16When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha: “It’s incredible, Master Gotama, it’s amazing! How well said this was by Master Gotama! ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. From sensual pleasure comes the best kind of sensual pleasure, which is said to be the best thing there.’ Master Gotama, from the senses comes sensual pleasure. From sensual pleasure comes the best kind of sensual pleasure, which is said to be the best thing there.”
“Kaccāna, it’s hard for you, who has a different view, creed, preference, practice, and teacher’s doctrine, to understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the best kind of sensual pleasure. There are mendicants who are perfected, who have ended the defilements, completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their own goal, utterly ended the fetters of rebirth, and are rightly freed through enlightenment. They can understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the best kind of sensual pleasure.”
17When he said this, Vekhanasa became angry and upset. He even attacked and badmouthed the Buddha himself, saying: “The ascetic Gotama will be worsted!” He said to the Buddha: “This is exactly what happens with some ascetics and brahmins. Not knowing the past or seeing the future, they nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’” Their statement turns out to be a joke — mere words, void and hollow.”
“Kaccāna, there are some ascetics and brahmins who, not knowing the past or seeing the future, nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’” There is a legitimate refutation of them. Nevertheless, Kaccāna, leave aside the past and the future. Let a sensible person come — neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them. Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’ Suppose there was a little baby bound with swaddling up to the neck. As they grow up and their senses mature, they’re accordingly released from those bonds. They’d know ‘I’m released,’ and there would be no more bonds.
In the same way, let a sensible person come — neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them. Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’”
18When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha: “Excellent, Master Gotama! … From this day forth, may Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”
1Evaṁ me sutaṁ — ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.
Atha kho vekhanaso paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ aṭṭhāsi. Ekamantaṁ ṭhito kho vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavato santike udānaṁ udānesi:
"Ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo, ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo"ti.
2"Kiṁ pana tvaṁ, kaccāna, evaṁ vadesi: ‘Ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo, ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo’ti? Katamo, kaccāna, so paramo vaṇṇo"ti?
3"Yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo"ti.
4"Katamo pana so, kaccāna, vaṇṇo yasmā vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthī"ti?
5"Yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo"ti.
6"Dīghāpi kho te esā, kaccāna, phareyya: ‘yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo’ti vadesi, tañca vaṇṇaṁ na paññapesi.
Seyyathāpi, kaccāna, puriso evaṁ vadeyya: ‘Ahaṁ yā imasmiṁ janapade janapadakalyāṇī, taṁ icchāmi taṁ kāmemī’ti.
Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ – khattiyī vā brāhmaṇī vā vessī vā suddī vā’ti?
Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.
Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ evaṁnāmā evaṅgottāti vāti … pe … dīghā vā rassā vā majjhimā vā kāḷī vā sāmā vā maṅguracchavī vāti … amukasmiṁ gāme vā nigame vā nagare vā’ti?
Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.
Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi na passasi, taṁ tvaṁ icchasi kāmesī’ti?
Iti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya.
7Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī"ti?
"Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī"ti.
"Evameva kho tvaṁ, kaccāna, ‘yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo’ti vadesi; tañca vaṇṇaṁ na paññapesī"ti.
"Seyyathāpi, bho gotama, maṇi veḷuriyo subho jātimā aṭṭhaṁso suparikammakato paṇḍukambale nikkhitto bhāsate ca tapate ca virocati ca, evaṁ vaṇṇo attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā"ti.
8"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā maṇi veḷuriyo subho jātimā aṭṭhaṁso suparikammakato paṇḍukambale nikkhitto bhāsate ca tapate ca virocati ca, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya kimi khajjopanako imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti?
"Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattandhakāratimisāya kimi khajjopanako, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti.
9"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya kimi khajjopanako, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya telappadīpo, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti?
"Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattandhakāratimisāya telappadīpo, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti.
10"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya telappadīpo, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya mahāaggikkhandho, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti?
"Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattandhakāratimisāya mahāaggikkhandho, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti.
11"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya mahāaggikkhandho, yā vā rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti?
"Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti.
12"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yā vā rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, yo vā tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti?
"Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti.
13"Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, yo vā vassānaṁ pacchime māse saradasamaye viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido majjhanhikasamayaṁ sūriyo, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti?
"Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, vassānaṁ pacchime māse saradasamaye viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido majjhanhikasamayaṁ sūriyo — ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā"ti.
14"Ato kho te, kaccāna, bahū hi bahutarā devā ye imesaṁ candimasūriyānaṁ ābhā nānubhonti, tyāhaṁ pajānāmi. Atha ca panāhaṁ na vadāmi: ‘yasmā vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro ca paṇītataro ca natthī’ti. Atha ca pana tvaṁ, kaccāna, ‘yvāyaṁ vaṇṇo kiminā khajjopanakena nihīnataro ca patikiṭṭhataro ca so paramo vaṇṇo’ti vadesi; tañca vaṇṇaṁ na paññapesi.
15Pañca kho ime, kaccāna, kāmaguṇā. Katame pañca? Cakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā, sotaviññeyyā saddā … pe … ghānaviññeyyā gandhā … jivhāviññeyyā rasā … kāyaviññeyyā phoṭṭhabbā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā — ime kho, kaccāna, pañca kāmaguṇā.
Yaṁ kho, kaccāna, ime pañca kāmaguṇe paṭicca uppajjati sukhaṁ somanassaṁ idaṁ vuccati kāmasukhaṁ. Iti kāmehi kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ tattha aggamakkhāyatī"ti.
16Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: "acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama. Yāva subhāsitañcidaṁ bhotā gotamena: ‘kāmehi kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ tattha aggamakkhāyatī’ti. ‘Kāmehi, bho gotama, kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ, tattha aggamakkhāyatī’"ti
"dujjānaṁ kho etaṁ, kaccāna, tayā aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrayogena aññatrācariyakena — kāmā vā kāmasukhaṁ vā kāmaggasukhaṁ vā. Ye kho te, kaccāna, bhikkhū arahanto khīṇāsavā vusitavanto katakaraṇīyā ohitabhārā anuppattasadatthā parikkhīṇabhavasaṁyojanā sammadaññāvimuttā te kho etaṁ jāneyyuṁ — kāmā vā kāmasukhaṁ vā kāmaggasukhaṁ vā"ti.
17Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako kupito anattamano bhagavantaṁyeva khuṁsento bhagavantaṁyeva vambhento bhagavantaṁyeva vadamāno: "samaṇo gotamo pāpito bhavissatī"ti bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: "evameva panidhekacce samaṇabrāhmaṇā ajānantā pubbantaṁ, apassantā aparantaṁ atha ca pana ‘khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyāti — pajānāmā’ti – paṭijānanti. Tesamidaṁ bhāsitaṁ hassakaṁyeva sampajjati, nāmakaṁyeva sampajjati, rittakaṁyeva sampajjati, tucchakaṁyeva sampajjatī"ti.
"Ye kho te, kaccāna, samaṇabrāhmaṇā ajānantā pubbantaṁ, apassantā aparantaṁ, ‘khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyāti — pajānāmā’ti – paṭijānanti; tesaṁ soyeva sahadhammiko niggaho hoti. Api ca, kaccāna, tiṭṭhatu pubbanto, tiṭṭhatu aparanto. Etu viññū puriso asaṭho amāyāvī ujujātiko, ahamanusāsāmi ahaṁ dhammaṁ desemi. Yathānusiṭṭhaṁ tathā paṭipajjamāno nacirasseva sāmaññeva ñassati sāmaṁ dakkhiti — evaṁ kira sammā bandhanā vippamokkho hoti, yadidaṁ avijjā bandhanā. Seyyathāpi, kaccāna, daharo kumāro mando uttānaseyyako kaṇṭhapañcamehi bandhanehi baddho assa suttabandhanehi; tassa vuddhimanvāya indriyānaṁ paripākamanvāya tāni bandhanāni mucceyyuṁ; so mokkhomhīti kho jāneyya no ca bandhanaṁ.
Evameva kho, kaccāna, etu viññū puriso asaṭho amāyāvī ujujātiko, ahamanusāsāmi, ahaṁ dhammaṁ desemi; yathānusiṭṭhaṁ tathā paṭipajjamāno nacirasseva sāmaññeva ñassati, sāmaṁ dakkhiti: ‘evaṁ kira sammā bandhanā vippamokkho hoti, yadidaṁ avijjā bandhanā’"ti.
18Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: "Abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama … pe … upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan"ti.
Vekhanasasuttaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ dasamaṁ.
Paribbājakavaggo niṭṭhito tatiyo.
19Puṇḍarī aggisaha kathināmo,
Dīghanakho puna bhāradvājagotto;
Sandakaudāyimuṇḍikaputto,
Maṇiko tathākaccāno varavaggo.